Simplify Math, Transform Achievement: S2 E2

Unknown: Welcome to

this episode of interventions.
I'm

Cheri Dotterer, co-host of this
podcast. I don't know if you're

aware, but Jonily of every month
where she talks to math teachers

about problems to overcome math
challenges. I've been attending

this. Yes, I, as an OT have been
attending this for the last five

years. That's how I discovered
how this area was something that

we needed to help our students
with. But she has invited us to

participate in a take a sneak
peek at the beginning of her

session. For anyone who is not
present, we do offer CEUs if you

go into disability labs, the
link is in the show notes, and

you take the short quiz that's
available today, you're going to

get to see the beginning of
Saturday math, September, 2024

to hear the rest of the math and
a little bit about what I had to

say. Also, I want you to wait
until the end. We also have

something else that we're
inviting you to. Saturday math.

We're back for the 2024 2025
school year, and I am your

fearless leader. Jonily
Zupancic, Saturday math is a

chance for us to come together
and for you to learn about

counterintuitive brain based,
highly impactful, which means

raising test scores powerful
opportunity to learn about how

to improve number sense and math
achievement for our students. By

doing that, our goal is to be
able to teach more in less time

with fewer things. So if
everything's important.

Nothing's important. What
typically happens, especially in

mathematics, is kids folders and
binders get so stuffed with

things and with worksheets and
packets and and then by the end

of the year, we don't have any
significant results of those

kids achieving and growing. So
what we want to do is really

come back to these cliche
phrases, less is more. Work

smarter, not harder. And people
say those all the time, and we

nod, and we're like, yeah, we
want that. We want that. But

it's like, what does that really
mean? What does that in

particular look like? And I'm
going to show you that on all of

these Saturday mornings. And
this morning, we are going to

focus on diagonals. That's it
like. That's how much I want us

to simplify this. Less is more
work smarter, not harder. So

everything we do today is going
to be based on this one

diagonal. I'm about to show you
this one diagonal can target

standards from preschool through
high school, and this one

diagonal can improve number
sense and overall math

achievement for our students. So
as we go through the Saturdays

this year, we're going to get a
little more

like particular we're going to
get a little more deliberate,

we're going to get a little more
focused on certain standards,

but today I just want you to see
the overall beauty of how one

diagonal can teach hundreds of
math skills and concepts. And

the reason for this is our kids
feel defeated with mathematics.

Our kids are beaten down, so
even as young as kindergarten

and first grade, kids already
come in with a sense that I can

do this or I can't do this. Now,
what they really mean, and part

of what they're saying is true.
Part of what they're saying is

true because we are born with a
certain level of number sense.

Number Sense, by definition, is
the innate, intuitive

understanding of number, and we
are born with a certain level of

that. There's a good amount of
research that says babies as

young as six months old can see
how large or small numbers are,

and babies as young as six
months old also already have

deficits in their seeing of
number and number, meaning how

big and small numbers are, where
they're placed on the number

line, the size of number and the
the word that I'm going to use

for this is magnitude. So even
our kids in kindergarten, fifth

grade, ninth grade, still have
this innate, intuitive sense,

and it varies from person to
person. Not everyone has the

same level of sense. So when
kids say, I can't do that, I

can't see it. There is some
truth to that, and what we want

to do is instead.

Instead of coming back with, and
I know this has kind of been

some of the flavor in math
professional development, and,

you know, math on social media,
instead of coming back and

saying, Oh, I can't do that yet.
Okay, that kids are just annoyed

by that sometimes, you know what
I mean. Just in all honesty, I

know our intentions are good. I
know our intentions are good, or

we come back and we're like,
we've gotta have a growth

mindset, okay? If you have a
mental disorder, let's say

you've got depression, you've
got anxiety, or you're just, you

know, people don't call this a
mental disorder, but if you are

a type A, you know, whatever,
that's that's somewhat of a

mental disorder, because we're
often annoyed by what some of

the people say. Because we're
like, look, we're we just don't

operate that way. So you're
saying these great things, and

we get it, but that doesn't help
me. Do you see? So when we come

back with those positive things,
I'm not saying don't come back

with positive things, but we
come back those positive things.

Sometimes the kids just see
right through that. So we have

to be really cautious in how
we're massaging this climate and

culture in our classrooms and in
our intervention sessions. So

when kids are telling us, I
don't get this, I don't

understand. I'm like, You know
what? I know? I know now you

learn this. I'm going to toggle
back and forth between math and

real life for a moment. You
learn this in therapy. So when

someone is coming to you and
they're really struggling, what

we tend to do as human behavior
is to fix it or give a positive

or look on the bright side. That
is the worst thing you can do

for someone that is struggling,
for someone that is struggling,

unless they're saying something
that you totally disagree with.

We want to come back and we want
to say, I know,

I know. Gosh, if you walk away
from this session today with

nothing else, take that. Okay,
so when our kids are

behaviorally challenged, and I
mean, I know this is a math

session, so kids are saying this
in math, but when they're

behaviorally challenged, ADHD,
when they're acting out and

they're frustrated and they're
mad, and you know, for some of

our older kids, they might be
cussing and walking out of the

room or whatever it is, you know
you the first thing I like to

say to kids is, I know, I know.
You know what. Sometimes life

sucks, I know.

And then one of the other things
is, how can I help? But let's

get back to the math piece. And
there are truths to kids that

are like, I don't get this.
Well, you can't, you just don't

get it. Yet, everybody's a math
person to I'm not trying to make

fun of that stuff, but really,
when you get down to the core of

how to fill deficits with kids,
that's not the way to do it. So

I say, I know. And the next
thing I say, particularly in my

math small groups and in my math
classrooms, is math is

difficult. There is so much
controversy with mathematics.

There is there is so much
struggle with mathematics that

we don't even acknowledge. And
kids feel like, well, I'm

supposed to get this soon, or
I'm supposed to have a growth

mindset. I guess I'm just
broken, and I still don't get it

because they really don't, they
don't get it, and because of our

instructional strategies, or
lack of really good best

practices and instructional
strategies, kids still don't get

it, and then we tell them,
they'll get it soon, but then

they still don't. Do you see,
this is like, really hardcore

this morning. This is really
hardcore this morning, but I

just want to just drop some
truths out there to really have

us rethink all of our
instructional facilitation

practices.

So I will say, I know math is
really difficult, and what we're

going to do is we are going to
just try to play with it. Just

give me a chance to play with
it,

and then I'm going to do with
them what I'm going to do with

you today, with one little
diagonal so I need to

acknowledge to them, like,
especially my eighth graders

that I'm working with right now,
great group of kids, very

compliant. Like, have a good
focus.

You know, they've kind of
checked out of math because

they've been defeated, but
they're willing to give it a try

this year. This is, this is my
new group of of eighth graders

I'm working with, and they are
just, they're the best, but

they're like, Mr. Panzek, I
just, I don't, I don't get it.

And for so many years, they
haven't gotten it, and they

don't see it that they just have
lost trust anymore in the adults

that are trying to help them. So
I'm going to show you what i.

Done with my eighth graders. Now
I'm in a unique situation, for

those of you that don't know,

I am a math coach and consultant
for minds on math. So I serve

anywhere from like five to 15
districts every year in some

capacity, in and outside Ohio,
as well as in person and

virtually. And because I serve
so many teachers in so many

districts, I like to bring us
together on these Saturdays to

kind of like pave the way for
all of the work that I do

together with my clients. But I
have one school in particular.

It's a k8 building that I have
some collaborative groups that I

work with. I have some partner
groups, and this year, I am

heavily invested, and I've been
in the classrooms every single

day of these grade levels, so
I'm highly invested, and have

all of the resources and
connection to standards for

these grade levels. And that is
Grade Two, grade three, grade

four, grade five, grade seven,
grade eight. So I've got six

classes a day right now that I
teach to, and when I teach to

each of those six classes, I use
the same stimulus and task with

every single class

and then facilitate it to match
the math standards of that grade

level. And you're going to see a
glimpse of that today. And I

think it's important, if you've
never been to a Saturday math

before, that I share with you
all this background information,

because what I'm going to do
today is going to be very

different than we typically
deliver mathematics to our kids.

Now I'm going to tell you I have
three,

and I think this is important
too, especially for those of you

that are regulars that may not
have heard this story, or maybe

it's been too long.

I say this because this isn't
all just fun and games. There

are three particular pretty
significant research results

that I've gotten in the past 20
years.

About almost 20 years ago now, I
had a sixth grade group of kids

with all different ability
levels, from limited and failing

the end of course exams every
year to accelerated advanced

kids that weren't necessarily in
advanced classes for math. So we

put a conglomerate of kids
together in this cohort, in a

sixth grade classroom. And of
this cohort, this, this entire

class of sixth grade students,
27% of them passed the fifth

grade, end of year state
assessment, only 27% passed. So

you know, the pair to that to
100 is how many failed. So 20%

27% of this cohort passed the
fifth grade. So you know, not

even a third of these kids
passed the fifth grade math end

of state assessment. The
previous year we had these kids,

of course, for nine months they
took the sixth grade assessment.

And for these kids, I was with
them every day, sometimes, and

then usually only one or two
days a week with this model. And

at the end of that sixth grade
year when they took the state

assessment,

66, zero, 60. Yes, I know
everybody's numbers are, are

that as a matter of fact, I have
a school district that reached

out last year that in their high
school algebra, end of state and

of course, state test, 4%
passed. I

mean, we just, I mean, this is
just, this is a fact. This

doesn't surprise anyone, but we
went from 27% passing to 60%

passing 66 zero. Now, still to
an outsider of the math

education world, they're like,
you only have 60% passing. No,

you don't get it in the in the
math achievement world, like 60%

is, is a number that only some
people can dream of. Okay, now,

in another school just last
year, not the partner school I

work with, but in another school
district. I worked with this

school district for two years,
pretty intensely, the fourth

grade teachers last year the end
of course, fourth grade state

math exam that all the fourth
graders in the state take, this

school district had had similar
results. They're anywhere from

like 40 to 65% passing at any
grade level. So these 2/4 grade

teachers with all of the fourth
graders in this whole district,

84% passing,

84% passing. So I mean, that is
tremendous, but what this is

going to take is a complete
shift in how we deliver

mathematics,

not a shift in the materials.

Use, although that could be, but
here's what our tradition is in

mathematics. Oh, hey, we've got
a curriculum review year, and

now is our chance to get 84%
passing. We're gonna do a

curriculum review, and we're
gonna choose a new curriculum,

and this is gonna do it that
will never do it. Okay? Now I'm

not saying don't do those
things. I'm not saying, like,

whatever, but if you want
results, like I'm talking about,

that's not the way you're going
to get the results. Okay? You

don't you do those things for
other reasons. One more

example, and then I promise I'm
going to teach you today,

because I'm sure you're like,
just tell me how to do it. Joni,

like you're preaching to the
choir here. We're here on a

Saturday morning, like we
believe you, we trust you. Just

freak and tell us what to do.
But I just, I need us to truly

understand the power and impact
of this model.

So the third example is I
actually at this partner school,

this k8 building, I have a
cohort of kids that I've been

following since kindergarten. I
get access to them at least two

days a week, at least two days a
week. And these kinders, because

I call them my kinders, because
they're my cohort group. They're

in seventh grade this year.

So you talk about, like
commitment to excellence, okay,

they are seventh graders this
year. I started with them in

kindergarten when they first
took the the a standardized

test. So not an achievement
test, not an adaptive test, not,

you know, there are two really
good standardized test companies

that I really love for
mathematics and for cognitive

ability, like IQ ish and they
are Terra Nova and Iowa. They're

actually competing companies,
but they both, you know, it

doesn't matter. It's, it's, you
know, apples and oranges. It

doesn't matter which you pick.
You know, they're both whatever,

whatever you know cost effective
way, or whatever partnership you

can make with them. When we took
the Terra Nova, when these

cohort of kids took the Terra
Nova

early on in second and third
grade, when you start giving it

their cognitive ability scores,
IQ scores, and 100 is average.

We're anywhere from like 89 to
132 Okay, so you have the bell

curve of cognitive ability. You
do at every grade level, every

school. But what we see in
schools is for the math

achievement portion. We
typically see a bell curve.

Also, we see a little bit of
kids, like, under 20th

percentile. We see some more
kids between 20 and 40th

percentile. 50th percentile is
average. So you see the most

kids at the top, you know, going
up that bell from that bell

curve, you see the most kids
between, like 40 and 60th

percentile, and then you start
seeing 70th, 80th percentile.

And then down here you see, you
know, 80th, 90th percentile, and

that's a few kids, just like
when you give any math test, you

get a few Fs, a little more DS,
probably lots of CS and Bs, a

little less Bs, and then a
little less A's.

So we're always teaching to
create these bell curves.

We want instructional delivery
that's going to break the bell

curve

like we just have accepted the
bell curve, because, see, that's

how brains are, and that's how
statistics

tells us cohorts of populations
are, and they are. You pick any

20 people off the street, you
give them a math thing, you'll

get a bell curve. Scenario,

what we did with this cohort
group was we broke the bell

curve. These kids had cognitive
abilities, still bell curve,

IQs,

but no student in the math
achievement portion had less

than a 70th percentile on their
math score. So every single one

of these students outperformed
their cognitive ability.

So this is possible,

and let's just snap to it here.
I'm going to go ahead and share

my screen,

I have two documents. I have the
document that I'm going to share

with you that when I follow up
through email, you'll get the

document that you can display
for your students, but the

document that I'm going to show
you today, I'm actually going to

draw notes on it so you have it
for you, so you can take your

own notes. But I'm going to draw
notes, I'm going to save it

electronically, and you're also
going to get that copy with all

of the notes we talked about
today. And then I am recording

this, so you will get a link to
the recording if you need to go

back and relook at any of the
pieces and parts. So I'm going

to go ahead, I'm going to pull
it up first, and I'm going to

share my screen. I'm going to
pull up the diagonals with.

Notes, and we're going to take
some notes on this.

Now, as I said, the
instructional delivery is what

is absolutely essential. The
instructional delivery is

absolutely essential. And I am
minimizing you guys, so if for

some reason, like you can't see
my screen, or you stop hearing

me, or whatever, just unmute and
tell me, because I'm minimizing

you, I'm not going to be able to
see you while I'm sharing here.

So there's a certain way that we
actually have to deliver, and

this is why an adoption of a new
textbook never gets significant

results and achievement is
because we're not focused on the

delivery. We're focused on the
new materials, but we're not

focused on the delivery. So you
can adopt any textbook you want,

and you can use this delivery
method with your textbook. This

is, this is probably one of the
most the other most important

things I say today is whatever
I'm sharing with you today,

you're going to see how it
teaches standards. You'll find

things like this in your
textbooks.

The key

to achieving high success is the
delivery, how we facilitate it,

just like I talked about at the
beginning. You know, when we use

some of those cliche things,
kids kind of just get annoyed by

that. So we need a better
delivery system that really

tells kids, no, this year is
going to be different, trust me.

So how do I deliver this? You
all see this diagonal and I've

put the delivery phrase here.
These are my favorite three

words other than I love you,
tell me about so I show kids a

diagonal and I say, tell me
about.

Now this comes back to when I
said, you know, kids are

defeated. They know that they've
not been good. They know they

have not been successful with
mathematics. And we're like, oh,

but not yet. And my 10th graders
are like, Yeah, my teachers have

been telling that for not
telling me that for nine years,

and nothing's changed.

So

instead of saying, you know,
we're not good yet, or growth

mindset, what what I do to tell
them that this year is different

and and to tell them that they
have good thinking and

reasoning, and to celebrate that
and to increase their

confidence, here's what I do. I
say, tell me about, tell me

about this diagonal See, I'm not
going to lecture them on the

fact that, you know, I am going
to acknowledge, yeah,

you know, you guys, because by
eighth grade, these kids are in

the non advanced math class. So
we're telling them, oh,

everybody's a math person,
everybody, but yet, you weren't

good enough to be in the
advanced class for math. See,

we're really contradicting what
we say in the climate that we're

building in schools. So I'm
going to tell kids, look, you're

not in the advanced math class.
Now, this is not how I'm talking

to first graders. Okay, I'm
talking about these kids that

come with a lot of baggage,
these secondary level kids, you

know, even fourth and fifth
grade. Look, you know what? I

know, I know. I know you
struggle. You know you're not in

the advanced math class. You
know. And there's a reason why,

and it's because

not to anybody's fault, but the
way that math has been delivered

to you has not allowed it to
open up your brain to access the

information. So I'm going to try
lots of different things with

you this year, until we get a
just right approach that your

brain is going to be able to
connect with it, and the only

way I can do that is to know
what you're thinking.

So to get everybody thinking, I
use the phrase tell me about

now, I don't necessarily tell
this to my kids because it's too

much lecturing, but I'm telling
this to you as teachers. The

reason I do this is because we
open up the access for

everybody, because I'm not
asking for an answer, because

I'm not asking them to solve
something, because I'm not

pigeonholing them into a skill
set, I'm just asking them tell

me about this diagonal anything
you know,

what it does is it levels the
playing field. It allows access

to all ability levels,

the most gifted and the most
struggling at the same time. So

I can put every ability level of
kid in the same classroom. I

don't even necessarily have to
have an advanced class. And I

can differentiate with this
model, with this one lesson, I

don't need enough to create
seven lessons.

So I can say, tell me about this
diagonal

gaining student perspective is
so essential in Daniel Pink's

book drive, which is all about
human behavior and what drive.

Us. It's really about
motivation. He said that there

are a few important factors for
motivation.

Number one is a sense of
belonging.

The way that I create a sense of
belonging in my classroom,

specifically with math content,
is through this model, I

actually say without maybe
saying it, I care what you

think. I care about your
perspective. You belong here,

and what your brain is doing
matters. And the way that I do

that is I say to my students,
you know what? Guys tell me

about this diagonal. Tell

me about this diagonal. Anything
you want. Now, when you first

start doing this, it's going to
be all to be awkward for kids,

but in just a few short days,
literally, like three days of

doing this, they're going to be
like, This is amazing, and I

trust you, like they're not
going to say that in those

words. They're still going to
roll their eyes because that's

just a teenage habit, but they
are going to be like, I trust

you and I'm willing to engage
because you care what I think I

belong. So see, these things are
absolutely important, no matter

what,

no matter what textbook or
curriculum resources we use, no

matter what

it's all in the delivery. That's
the point. So gaining student

perspective is the first thing
we should do every single day to

jump start our lessons. Tell me
about now. You could get

something from your textbook.
You could get an equation, or

you could get a fraction or a
number or a picture, or

whatever. Take a picture of
something in your textbook.

Remove all of the questions,
remove all of the narrative,

remove all of the stuff that
forces answer, getting and

solving, and just put whatever
symbol or image is there, just

like my diagonal. And you'll
say, tell me about this

equation. Don't want you to
solve it. I just tell me about

this equation. Tell me what.
Now, here's some other prompts.

Tell me what you see. What do
you notice?

Now, the next thing that I can
ask, and I don't always ask. So

for those of you that were brand
new today, welcome. I hope we

see you on other saturday
sessions. The best way to get

triggered knowing when the
registration is up, because

after today, I'll put the
registration up for October. I

only put the registration up in
Eventbrite one month at a time

in order to not miss it, to be
guaranteed to not miss it and

not rely on me to remember you.

I juggle a lot. I got a lot of
plates spinning. Go to

Eventbrite and follow mines on
math, and then you'll get an

email. Hey, there's a new event.
Hey, there's a new event. Hey,

there's a new event.

So do that. That would be the
number one action. Also, if you

are new or even returning and
you're not already registered

for tier one interventions, get
on that train and get your

friends and get involved and and
we launch September 21 two weeks

from today. So gotta do that.
The next I want to say is, if

you follow math, if you follow
minds on math on Eventbrite,

we've got another free training
just like this that we're going

to do once a month. This is
brand new. Krista, Amy Nicole,

Laura, those of you that are
returning, those of you that

have been here, Kirk, those of
you that have been here before,

we're adding another free
monthly session that is going to

be mathematics based, but it's
going to target more of the

adaptations. I mentioned the
adaptations today. Sherry

mentioned in the comments some
of the adaptations, but it's

going to be mathematically
based. So we're going to teach a

math concept, but it's going to
be much more of sherry sharing

the adaptations for that
concept. So if you have kids

struggle with fine motor, you
have kids struggle with visual

perception, you have kids
struggle with ADHD. You have

kids that struggle with some of
those non academic things. The

session every month is called
impact. It will always be on a

Wednesday at 7pm Eastern. Event
right already has the

registration up.

You can on right now go to
Eventbrite, search minds on

math, and you can register for
that session I

and we are going to extend the
diagonal,

and we are going to expand on
how to adapt that for students

with and without disabilities,
but looking at it from the what.

Makes a diagonal, a diagonal
beautiful, and why? When Sherry

put in the comments before
diagonals are the most

difficult, like in letter
formation.

Okay, so we're going to add all
of those pieces in and extend on

the content from whatever the
Saturday was, and we're gonna

share all of the adaptive
strategies. So

this is up level for us.

This is really up level, and
we're bringing it to you once a

month,

and it's gonna be on a
Wednesday, and we hope to see

you for that you.