Why Number Sense Unlocks Everything

Hello and welcome to Tier
One Interventions podcast.

Today we are taking an excerpt
out of a live event that John Lee

hosted earlier this month in June.

Hope you enjoy the excerpt, and
I'd like to hear what you have to

say about how this episode ends.

What do you think she is sharing with us?

we are here to talk about
the science of math.

Which may or may not be
a thing at this point.

Some people think it's a thing and some
people that think it's a thing have

defined it in many of the wrong ways.

I'm here today to set the record
straight and I want us to be the front

runners in this whole movement so
that it doesn't get all wackadoodle.

Please feel free today to ask
questions, to interrupt me, to make

comments, to give your own opinions.

I'm gonna say a lot of things
that you're gonna disagree with.

You're allowed to disagree with
me, and you're allowed to tell

me that you disagree with me.

That is what is going to move math
forward is when we get amped up.

Because this is cognitive science of
math, we are gonna be talking a lot

today about how the brain learns.

Did anybody notice anything on
the screen while I was talking?

I.

Ah, Daphne.

I knew you would notice.

You are like the most aware person.

Anybody else notice anything on
the screen while I was talking?

Did you notice the last slide?

What was on the last slide?

Look at, you.

See, you're my new friends from Monday.

You guys are my old friends.

You guys are my new friends
from Monday, and I can just

tell that you are pretty slick.

Okay.

When we are talking about the brain,
so I'll go back to the first slide.

You can look at the screen now, but when
we're talking about the brain, I think

everything here is spelled correctly.

That was the, that was intentional there.

But then as I was talking, I
changed slides and some of these

words changed up a little bit.

Okay.

Raise your hand if you did
not notice any of that.

Why do you think that was?

Cheri?

Yeah.

'cause I kept moving around and
you're like, Jonily, I told you just

to stand up front and she probably
told me 67 times and I'm sorry.

I know.

Why do you think that was, that
maybe you didn't notice what

was happening with the screen?

Yeah, because what was happening?

Yes.

Very nice.

Yes.

Our brains sometimes only focus on the
first and last, and our brains adjust for

those mistakes, but also the movement.

Why else do you think you didn't notice?

Yeah, Joan.

Exactly.

What else?

Today we're gonna talk about a lot of the
parts of the brain and how the brain makes

us do things and makes us not do things.

And that really is what describes
the science of mathematics

or the science of anything.

The science of basically means.

It's a collection of research.

The science of doesn't mean, okay,
here's the script, here's the program.

Here's the thing.

It just says, we have collected over
time a bunch of research that the

common theme is X, Y, and Z. For math
today, we're gonna talk about what those

common themes are, and some of them
are gonna be very counterintuitive to

what we think about for mathematics.

I first really need to talk a
little bit about the science of

reading, which I am not an expert.

I will not claim to be an expert.

However, you can't help this
thing being in your face recently.

Okay?

The science of reading is
a collection of research.

I wanna make it very clear
that reading is an action.

Reading is not innate.

We're not born with the skill of reading.

And reading must be explicitly taught.

Any additions to that?

Yes.

Say it again.

We're gonna also talk about why sensory
inputs are so important to learning

and understanding mathematics today.

Those of you that are familiar
with the science of reading,

you've been down that path.

If you're not familiar with the science of
reading, just know that it is absolutely

the opposite of the science of number.

Now, the science of
mathematics is two things.

The science of mathematics
is procedural and conceptual.

The science of mathematics
is in two categories.

Number and ability.

Number and ability.

The science of ability of math is much
more directly related to the teaching

strategies of the science of reading.

Let me say that again.

Math ability is one category.

And math ability category is much
more related to the science of

reading, meaning procedurally,
it needs to be explicitly taught.

It's not something that anyone is just
going to figure out in the book that you

each have at your seat making Math Iners.

This defines the two categories I just
mentioned, so I'm not gonna go into a lot

of deep detail because it's in the book.

Math Ability is the category that
is closely related to reading.

Math ability must be explicitly taught.

However, students have a better
chance of achieving with math ability

when we study the science of number.

The other category is
number or number sense.

Reading is one category.

There's one way to do it.

As I've been told, again,
I'm not the expert.

I just know enough to be dangerous.

I just know enough to make
this analogy to mathematics.

The science of reading is parallel
and related to the science of

math ability, but it is the exact
opposite of the science of number.

Talk at your tables.

30. Let's do 45 seconds
about that last statement.

Science of reading
related to math ability.

The opposite of the science of number.

Talk for 45 seconds at your tables.

Go.

I like a lot of urgency
in our conversations.

I like a lot of urgency for students.

The brain feeds on urgency and deadline.

If I said for the next five minutes you're
gonna talk about that last statement.

The best productivity of your
conversations really is gonna happen

in the first 45 seconds anyway.

Sometimes we think we
don't have enough time.

Oh, tweet this.

Sometimes we think we don't have
enough time, but we actually

are spending too much time.

Oh, I could have you talk about that, but
someone just tweeted at minds on math.

Anyway, number sense is the door
to entering math achievement.

Math achievement is the overall
umbrella for the two categories.

Math, ability, and number sense.

Math ability is the explicit
procedural step by step.

Number sense is the
opposite of all of that.

Number sense is the door to
opening up all math achievement.

If we can improve number sense, we can in
turn very easily improve math achievement.

We are gonna focus all day
today on the number sense.

If you came here today to
learn how to better teach long

division, I got nothing for you.

Actually, I do have something for you.

Just do.

Just do.

Yes.

But just show it and kids will
mimic, just do the mimicking thing.

It's just typical instruction.

Any procedure is just, if I want kids
to follow direction, step by step

for a procedure, then I just do it.

However, that is not number sense and it
is not the gateway to math achievement.

Number sense is the door to
overall math achievement.

By improving number sense and
focusing on number sense, we

can then improve math ability.

We're not gonna talk a lot
about the math ability today.

We're only gonna focus on
the number sense piece.

If number sense is the door to opening
math achievement, then counting is what's

going to launch and enhance number.

Number senses the door to opening
math achievement, which will a

byproduct is to increase math ability.

But if we want to increase number sense,
which is the ultimate goal, the first

and last step is improving number sense.

And if we want to do that, the
foundational piece is counting.

And counting is the key to
unlocking the number sense door.

Now this analogy is important.

Because talk to me.

Let me go back and say it again and then
I, we're not gonna release, I just want

you to tell me whole group if number sense
is the key to unlocking math achievement.

And I say counting is the key
to unlocking number sense.

Tell me about that.

Yeah, Tim,

say that.

Speak louder.

Sure.

Oh, you know what?

Do the mic, because
we're, I have to use this.

We were looking at our test
scores and what we found out

was that the numbers sense was
affecting the application process.

On our assessments.

Some of the questions that we did
well on the number sense was there.

The other ones traced it back to
not having number sense skills

which directly impacted the result
of the application question.

, We've realized how the number
sense is really a major push still.

And that we need to make sure that
foundation is strong no matter what we do.

However, when we say we're doing
improvements to number sense, we are

actually on the math achievement route.

I'm just gonna get real
down and dirty today.

We want to and here is the
only thing you need to hear

today to improve number sense.

You just must do daily count, daily
counting exercises, and every session

today, I'm gonna give you another
example of a daily counting exercise.

And that's what I want you to walk
away with a daily counting exercise.

I just want kids to count
and count efficiently.

Counting is innate.

We are born with the ability to count.

All fish can count, all animals can count.

This is the whole predator prey.

A predator can look and see
if there is a large group of

prey or a small group of prey.

That is estimation.

Students that have dyscalculia
struggle with estimation.

We are born with a certain
level of number sense.

That's different than
the skill for reading.

We are born with number.

It is innate.

It is intuitive.

However, we're all born
with a certain level.

Some stronger than others.

Number sense can be improved.

And as I already said it, it
is improved by counting period.

That's it.

That's the only answer.

Number sense is improved by counting, but
number sense cannot be explicitly taught.

Like reading

number sense can be improved
through counting and also through

sensory, multisensory, visual
conceptual, contextual experiences.

And throughout today, in every single
session, you're gonna see example

after example of everything that goes
back to counting and number sense.

On the next slide, I'm gonna show
you a quick dot and show you the

screen for about three seconds.

I'm gonna take it away and then I want
you to tell me how many dots you saw.

Perfect.

How many, just call it out 30.

What?

Some good.

I like it.

A lot or a little.

See, this is what I do with my K one kids.

Okay?

This is how we start to use
some of those description words.

Where there a lot.

Where there?

A little Where there a ton.

Where there a million.

You can already see how that dot image
is differentiated for all ability levels.

Okay?

Somebody else said 30.

What else?

How many?

80. 65.

Love it.

See, Audrey, you so fancy.

Fewer than a hundred.

How?

How many?

One other.

Now I'm gonna show you another one.

I'm gonna show you another one.

Ready?

How many dots on this next slide?

How many.

90. How many

say it again?

16 times five

80.

Here's what I'm gonna tell you, there
were the same number of dots here as here.

What's the difference and what's
the same talking your table groups?

One minute go.

Two, one, and I'm not gonna
have you share out on this one.

I want you to understand
the subtleties of today.

I wanna engage you in the
mathematics today, but you're gonna

miss a lot of the facilitation.

I wanna point it out to you.

Notice when I did the first release for
45 seconds, I brought you back together.

Did I have anybody share out?

Okay, and then the next time I didn't
release you into tables, I just had

a share out, and then this time I
released you and we're not sharing out.

I want you to just
notice those subtleties.

We're gonna talk about those things
later today because of, oftentimes

you'll come to a session like this and
you'll get great ideas and you'll have

a good time and things will be great,
but you'll miss what made it happen.

Then we go back to our classrooms and then
we're like, okay, that was so fantastic,

but I still don't know how to do it.

I want you to pick up on the
how you can do it subtleties.

When you look at both of those images
of dots, you know that there is one big

difference, and that is the organization.

Number sense.

Is improved by understanding organization.

An organization in
mathematics is rectangle.

Organization in mathematics is rectangle.

What we have to do to improve number
sense and improve counting is to

redefine what's essential in mathematics.

One thing that is absolutely
essential is categorizing

organizing and using rectangle.

Our students already have this skill, but
we do not match our instruction to extract

the skill that our students already have
because the perspective of our students

is different than our perspective.

What I want us to walk
away from today with.

Is to get better at identifying
and extracting student perspective

and then responsive teaching
to match their perspective.

Because until that disconnect
goes away, we cannot improve.

Number sense.

This was my son when he was in preschool.

My oldest son who is 20 now, when he
was in preschool, I am certain that

his teacher said color, the P'S yellow
and the O'S black and the t's green.

And he did exactly that.

We have to be careful
When we are too explicit.

When we are too explicit in our
instruction, we get defaults like this.

In a moment, I'm gonna have
you look at nine symbols.

Now, some of you that
have known me for a while.

You have seen this before
and that is purposeful.

To those of you that are new and have
not interacted with me, you've never seen

this, and that is purposeful in a moment.

On the next slide, I'm
gonna show you nine symbols.

They're gonna be listed vertically
and you're not going to write

them down until I take them away.

I'm gonna show them to you for about
five seconds when I take them away.

You are going to write down all of
the symbols in the same order and

the same orientation you saw them.

Now you are going to need something
to write with and let me do a

little bit of logistics right now.

You all gotta color
folder when you came in.

There are blank pages in that color
folder at the end, so you're welcome

to use any of those blank pages.

This folder is full of resources
that we're gonna use today

and it's yours to keep and.

At the end of the three prongs,
there's blank paper, and you are

absolutely u allowed to use that blank
paper to write down these symbols

unless you brought your own paper.

But when I show you the
symbols, you can't write yet.

I'm gonna show about five seconds, take
'em away, and then you're gonna write.

Is everybody ready now?

Okay.

I wasn't gonna give anybody a handicap.

I wanted to make sure everybody had the
same accessibility, because now you're

like, oh, I didn't even bring a pen.

See, I gave you time to figure
all that out and find something

to write on, and it's okay.

And nobody had to freak out.

All right, here we go.

I'm gonna show this to
you, but don't write yet.

Write 'em down.

Okay, check your work, and in a moment
I'm gonna ask how many you have, correct?

Correct.

Location and correct orientation.

Okay.

Anybody have at least three, correct?

We should have lots of hands here.

At least three.

At least three.

At least four.

At least five.

Okay, so at least five is five or more.

Okay, so at least five.

Five or more?

At least six.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

So at least six Stand up
if you had at least six.

Correct.

There's no cheating,

I'm gonna have Cheri talk.

Come on up here.

Come on out here, front and
center, because I'm gonna

have Cheri, just I love you.

I'm gonna have Cheri talk about
the raffle that we have today.

The Raffles today are sponsored
by the Learning Disability Podcast

Network, and I'm gonna have
Cheri talk about that sponsor.

And the sponsor has, dozens and dozens of
free things that we're giving away today.

Talk to us about that.

Share me and then you'll take
Patreon and pick out price.

Sure.

So as of Monday, you didn't
even know about this.

We had to change the name
of the podcast Network too.

Disabilities Labs Podcast Network

anyway, so the li disabilities Labs
is where tier one interventions and.

The course is, it is
called Mastery Math Method.

It is hosted on Disability Labs and we
take part of the training and we put it

out to Tier One Interventions podcast.

So that was one of the
podcasts that's on the network.

There is another podcast on the
network called The Writing Glitch.

I was the host of that, and I did

every, I did it up until the end of May
because I am shifting some of my focus.

I feel like I have exhausted
everything with The Writing Glitch.

So The Writing Glitch, can anybody
guess what I mean by a writing Glitch?

You knew it.

You knew this.

Okay.

Yes.

Dysgraphia is the disability in writing
Being an occupational therapist,

what do we get their referrals for?

Can somebody help my kid with writing?

This kid has sloppy
writing is a dysgraphia,

i, in 2019, published handwriting,
brain Body Disconnect, they are

on sale outside for $20 a piece.

And from that book I started the podcast.

I have some courses and things like that.

Along the way I met Ms. Jonily
and we decided to partner up and

take some of the world of writing.

And brought it to mathematics because
I bet you guys don't realize it,

that whether you're writing a letter
or you're writing a number, you're

doing the same thing in your brain.

And where does it begin?

It begins by connecting the thought to the
product that's coming out on your hand.

So we have partnered together, and yes,
Kirk, we are writing a book together.

It is not published yet because we have
realized over the last year that some

of the things that we have in that book,
as we were writing it, we just didn't

like the way they were flowing, and we
wanted to be a little bit more articulate.

So the reason the book is on
delay is because of those of

you who are our beta readers.

Can I have those of you who
are our beta readers stand up?

I know Janet was one.

Janet, are you the only one in the room?

We had several disciplines.

We had ot, speech teacher, special ed
teacher, school psychologist review

the book and the feedback was, I didn't
quite understand this, so we are back.

So our mission this summer
is to finish that book.

So because I have gotten the point
of now where I have discontinued

hosting The Writing Glitch, however,
it's still up there, you can listen

to three years worth of information
about dysgraphia and dyslexia.

Be sure to subscribe and click that bell
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And by the way, we are only submitting
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We look back to starting up every