Why Some Kids Can Read but Still Can’t Write

Math DysConnected Week Session 1 Segment 1
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Cheri: [00:00:00] I am Cheri Dotterer. I am an occupational therapist for the last 30 years.

The first half of my career was adult rehab. I did the whole gamut of acute care, hospital rehab, hospital, long-term care, landed in home care, went back and got my master's degree, and I let. Entered the world of school-based therapy when the moment I left for with my master's degree and started cold Turkey, had no idea what I was doing.

15 years later, here I am helping other people understand dysgraphia. So how did that come about? I had kids who were reading above grade level and couldn't write. Not only were there, was it happening at home, it was happening with my clients. And I started reflecting upon myself and realized, oh my, that's me too.

So needed to figure out how to help [00:01:00] myself in the process, help my kids, and help my students that had this unique thing where they could read and couldn't write. And I realized that not only is what I'm teaching kids who can read, kids who can't read also are benefiting. And then I met Ms. Jonily, and she brought my light to math as well.

So without further ado love, I'm gonna let Jonily introduce herself. Yeah, so Jonily Zupan, I am from Ohio, and math teacher by trade, was with the school district for 15 years and for the past eight, nine-ish years, I've been a math coach and consultant for Mines on Math. Cheri and I have our worlds collided about four or five years ago.

And what this collision has done is brought together the medical world, so [00:02:00] students that are diagnosed with A DHD dyslexia, learning disabilities et cetera, et cetera. Cheri's approach to therapy with those students and then me as a classroom math teacher approach to trying to serve these students.

And the combination of those two worlds is what we're gonna bring you this week. In this challenge, we are going to focus specifically on mathematics. However, many students who struggle with mathematics also have a combination of other learning disabilities. So we are gonna talk about all of the learning disabilities.

And then what if we have students that are struggling that don't have a diagnosis? I love Cheri's words. I know these are not her words. We continue to use these words from other organizations. And what are the interventions that benefit all and harm none. I am about full inclusion. I like [00:03:00] to serve our students in the full.

Class, tier one setting, whatever you call that. So what we're gonna share with you this week is absolutely appropriate and necessary for whole class because what benefits students with disabilities will harm no one else and actually will benefit all. So that's a little bit about my background, but more about the background of.

The connection of Cheri and I. So we're excited to bring you this challenge this week. We are I'm glad so many of you have your videos on. We are gonna ask you to be very active very participatory. Use the chat, let us know if you have questions. We want to engage with each other as much as possible over the next four nights, including tonight.

So Cheri, thank you. And Cheri has done a lot of the backend work to make this happen. The guidebook that you receive, the emails that you're getting, thank you Cheri, [00:04:00] for putting all that together. And I can't wait to jump into the content tonight. And Jonily has put a lot of the content. In the right form.

We had all this stuff. She gave me the content. I made it look pretty. So don't think that she's trying to say that she didn't do any of the work this time? No, she did do a lot of the work. I just made it look pretty. Yeah. I'm not pretty. And I believe we had some other people jump in. I know Cindy is one, and there was one other person.

And I'm trying to find them on my screen. I know with the admits it ot. Ot, it just says OT on, on her file. O we're gonna go with OT first. Can you tell us a little bit about where you're calling in from? How did you find out about the challenge this evening and what grades are you working with?

Unable to do how about you, [00:05:00] Cindy? And we have another one coming in. Oops, repeat that. Where are you calling in from? How did you find out about the challenge and about the challenge and what grades do you work with? So currently I am OT and I am working with, I would say five year olds through 18 actually. And I am calling or actually zooming in from Indiana, Pennsylvania, little town called Strongs Town outside of Indiana, Pennsylvania. And I met Cheri through the occupational POTA, so Pennsylvania Occupational Therapy Board.

And I just met Jonily on the last five day challenge.

Sally is texting me and asking me a question, Sally, the answer is no. So you are good. Keep doing what you have to do that you, I know you [00:06:00] can't share your screen right at the moment. So without further ado, let's get started. Does everyone have a workbook? I just put it in the chat again. It says here that the girl is OT is from South Dakota and can't seem to get her mute to unmute.

H ruffle, if you can put in the chat where you're from. How did you find out about us? We have just basically gone through and introduced ourselves. That's basically what you've missed. And so if you don't have workbook. Put like your hand up so that I can say, okay we'll put it in the chat again.

But if you look at your notebook, we have what, 47 pages of wonderful content to share with you over the next week. So don't be overwhelmed by it. We're only gonna do a little bit at a time [00:07:00] tonight. We're gonna get started by filling in some blanks and giving you some background behind this idea of disc pallia and how it, and we're gonna talk really about how it relates to writing during this whole week.

So we're really gonna pa be focusing on pages four and five right now.

So if you wanna turn to page four, we're gonna talk a little bit about your, about how you feel with working with these kids. So if you look on page four, one of the first questions is asks is what do your students think about themselves when they have math challenges? So I'm just gonna ask you to throw those thoughts in the chat. What are your students thinking about themselves?

Do they tell you do they keep it to [00:08:00] themselves? Thank you for filling in the check the conversation there. Jonily. They're not smart. Yes, Lisa, that is a great response. I'm not good at math. I'm not good at math. I'm stupid. They're shy with no confidence. Exactly. Like all of these emotions get attached to whatever it is that we're doing, especially when there's a struggle, it becomes.

A burdensome emotion.

Now let's flip the, let's flip the conversation a little bit. What about you? How do you feel about yourself when you are struggling to help that student who is struggling? What are your emotions when you are working with that student? Put those thoughts in [00:09:00] the chat as well. Lost frustrated.

Janet. I love it. You need to be a cheerleader. You feel helpless, frustrated. Stay calm. Yes. What does that shirt say? Be calm. Stay calm and whatever. Challenged, stressed guilty. Ooh. Notice some of these con the, these responses and these emotions are very similar to what the student is feeling.

So let's take the next five days and see if we can turn that around and make it so that we have some positive feelings towards math.

Is everybody ready? All right, so [00:10:00] let's try to fill in that blank, that first one. Did you know that it costs eight times as much to educate a child in special education than it does general education? Eight times. It cost around $20,000 to teach a student in. I believe the statistics that, that I found was from 2019, so this was even before Covid hit today.

It, or the statistic in comparison in 2019 was $160,000 to educate a child in the special education system eight times. So the answer to that first blank is eight times.

What are your thoughts on that? Does that make sense to you? Put your feelings in the chat about [00:11:00] that?

Not any, not feeling any emotion that goes along with that number. To me, I think there's a lot of. Frustration and when I see money getting spent, especially when these kids are in that moment where they could benefit from staying in the regular ed education classroom and having that extra tier support and we can help them out.

So my goal has been to really try to implement tier one level instruction that looks like an OT created it, honestly, but looking at it and creating this entire classroom, doing the same thing and it benefits all the kids in the class. So that's why I say it benefits all and harms none. And [00:12:00] it's one of the terms that the dyslexia community uses a lot when we're describing that explicit, systematic, cumulative and multisensory.

Approach to education.

All right. I like some of the comments that we're getting in the chat. All right. Second blank on your worksheet. A diagnosed specific math learning disability is called, anybody wanna answer it? Oh, just on mic. DYS cal. It's what we're all here for, right? Learn about dyscalculia. And there are many different ways that I've heard it pronounced dyscalculia.

So lots of different emphasis in different places. The reason there's so many mispronunciations or variety [00:13:00] of enunciations, we have not. Really given the credit that this learning disability deserves. And this is one of the powerful outcomes that the connection that Cheri and I have brought together has created for us and now this week for all of you.

So I'm very excited to present some cutting edge and not yet discovered ideas and concepts from this specific math learning disability. Cool. And then the answer, the last two on the page are math, dyslexia, or number dyslexia.

Dyslexia is [00:14:00] much more. Known than Cheri's expertise, which is the writing, learning disability, dysgraphia, and even more dyscalculia. And even if there were more diagnoses for math learning disability, that still does not fill the gap of how we help these deficits that students have. So we might think that an awareness of dyscalculia and a diagnosis of that might solve our problems.

However, the exact opposite is true because now we have this learning disability that we don't have as much resource or intervention as we do for reading until now. So very excited about everything that we're gonna bring to you this week on that. Thank you. Generally. [00:15:00] All right. Does anybody have any questions about filling in the blanks on page four?

Okay. Let's move on to page five, where we have taken the DSM five definition and we've laid it out for you. So does everybody know what the, what I mean by the DSM five? Have you ever heard of that thing before? Oh, I'm glad I got a nod that says no. The DSM five is really the Bible in the medical field of mental health.

It stands for the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Health Disorders. I'm gonna call in Cindy Frederick Bolton. Can you put diagnostic and statistical Manual of mental health disorders in the chat, please? I can do that. Thank you. And inside, inside that manual there is. Every mental [00:16:00] health disorder is broken down with the criterion that a psychologist and psychiatrist are going to use to shift a diagnosis one way or the other.

The dyslexia, dysgraphia and dyscalculia are in one section of the dsm. Five. Things like autism and A DHD are in another section. A lot of times those particular diagnoses are comorbid along with these, the reading, writing, and the math. But I wanted you to be aware that they are at another section of the DSM five.

They are there but they are not necessarily a dyscalculia. However, when I look at. What, how they describe something like a DHD and autism spectrum disorders. They're like a primary diagnosis, and then [00:17:00] the reading, writing and math are a functional diagnosis. Maybe you've heard of some of this, if you've worked on it with an IEP, you're hear these terms, so I just wanna throw them out there and explain to you a little bit about from the medical world where things fall together.

And I think this is essential because in general education we do not have and I'm speaking for me and my circle which is not everybody, so this may be different from you, but we in the general education setting have no knowledge or awareness of what's happening with these kids. In assessment in, when they see their pediatrician, when they're diagnosed and something ends up in the IEP.

So much of this week is going to be an in-depth awareness of some of these things in the [00:18:00] medical world that are going to help support and add and help us as general education specialists advocate for these students. Not only is there a disconnect, which is the reason the title this week is disconnected, not only is there a disconnect from general education in the medical world, then you have a disconnect even with your general ed and your special education or support staff in the school.

So fun little story. I began teaching in 1999. Christie Flynn, who is here today, was my intervention specialist at the time. Now, some of you may have had the unique, wonderful, rare situation that we had, and that was when we met and started working together, trying to understand the perspective of each other and our own expertise and knowledge.

And [00:19:00] oftentimes in schools, I don't see that connection. So if we don't even have that connection from general ed to special ed in the schools, there is a. Huge disconnect between the education world and the medical world. That is what we want to make connections for this week. So Cheri and I are on a mission.

We're very passionate about it. So if you feel like there's some things that are not quite grab and go, that's intentional because it wasn't until I became aware of some of these things that Cheri's talking about, that I was able to then do my job better to serve students. So Cheri, I don't know if you wanna add on to that or if you wanna give your perspective, but because I also wanna address the occupational therapist in the crowd.

Perfect. And that is because we don't understand what's happening. What, what does Rich. Mathematical instruction really mean generally has said that [00:20:00] to me for five years. And I was only, I think it was like two weeks ago where I went, oh, that's how you made that connection. I've been listening to her weekly for five years and it, and I don't know Kristy Ewing is not on tonight.

I oh no. Krista's not here. Yeah. She was on a call that Jonily and I were on. I think she was the only one that could have been on that call with us. And that was the first time that I was able to make that connection to what is this thing that Jonily keeps talking about? And that is what we're gonna talk about all this week.

And that is a thing called quick dots and how the relationship between the visual perception and the math go together. Without further ado, let's find out the answers for these blanks on page five. 'cause I don't wanna short our time at the [00:21:00] very end 'cause I do wanna share everybody what that purple dot looks like that we're going to share so that those four bars that are on the left, the first one, the answer to that poor understanding of number magnitude and number relationships is number sense.

Anybody who is in the world of math goes, oh, I know what number sense is. An OT has never heard that before. I never heard the word number sense. Now, maybe if you have an OT who is also working in with the A mat teacher or something like that, maybe, or have a child that has the dyscalculia, maybe they may have, but that's not one of those terms that's in our lingo.

And just to make another connection to that, in the education world, there are many misunderstandings of what number sense is. [00:22:00] Tomorrow's session is going to give us an in-depth look at what number sense is and is not. And we're gonna start and touch on that tonight, but we're really gonna look at that tomorrow with an example of one of these rich math experiences.

What is number sense and what is not. And I just wanna point out this page that you're looking at, that Cheri's filling in the blanks. These are the exact terms and language from the DSM five. Yes. So what we're going to do the rest of the week is Cheri's gonna keep us very solid with the medical terminology and what is in the DSM five.

And then I am going to get us really solid on what that language means in the education world because there's a lot of misconception about the language as well. And so we're going to redefine some of these words. That we sometimes use flippantly in the education world, which is why [00:23:00] we're confused on how to serve students.

Thank you. So count on fingers. Lack of recall. The fill in the blank for that one is number facts.

So the first one was number sense,

and the second one is number facts. The third line down gets lost admits Ari arithmetic. Computation about just being able to read the word and switches procedures as calculations.

And I can't type tonight If I have a spelling error in the chat, bear with me. And then the last one with the DSM five definition is math reasoning, difficulty [00:24:00] with applying math concepts, facts and procedures, solving mathematical problems. So again, that's number sense. Number facts, calculations and math reasoning.

Does anybody have any glaring, huh? With any of those comment or any of those definitions? Just open your mic and say, Hey, stop me. Raise your hand. It doesn't matter. Just get our attention if we're going too fast. And then the last blank on the page is school math. Number sense is different from math ability.

Math ability is school math. That is not from the DSM five. I wanna make that very clear. And the reason that we, Cheri and I are gonna present to you some new categories that are not in the DSM five is if you read that medical document, you may be more confused than [00:25:00] before you read it. So what we have done, what Cheri has helped me do is understand the document and then what Cheri and I have done together is we've pulled the math pieces, which there are not very many at all.

And what we're going to do this week is add some additional pieces that I have been using for years that explain what the terminology in the DSM five means. So the math ability and school math. Is not in the DSM five. I wanna just make very clear what is reported medically and what we are reporting to you this week.

And yes. If a child has math struggles, oftentimes they have dyslexia. So as Cheri mentioned before, there are many co connected learning disabilities and some of [00:26:00] the other learning disabilities. Even if a student is di diagnosed with a DHD, some of those learning disabilities will cause math struggles and not necessarily mean the student has dyscalculia.

It may be caused by another learning disability. And we wanna differentiate between these things this week and give you a full depth of all of the terminology, what medical says, what education says, and then what Cheri and I say.

All right. So right now I need you to get prepared to put something in the chat. I am going to show you a picture, and I would love if you could tell us how many dots that you see. Some of you have seen this dot before. Many of you have not. Are you ready? Okay,[00:27:00]

we see it. Thank you, Cheri. All right. In the chat, how many dots were on that image?

Love it. Cole says 81. 81. Karen said nine by nine. Love it. Wait a minute. How, where did the nine by nine come from? I don't see that one. That was the very first one before all the 80 ones started popping up. I missed it. It didn't come to me. Yeah. The chat scrolled quickly. Maybe it, she sent it to you and not everybody, but we got a 53.

We got a 72. All right. Where are my OTs? Oh, we have an OT given a 53. Cindy, come on. Where's your guest?[00:28:00]

Oh, I love it. Woo hoo, Janet. Yeah. Good. 37, 32 and five. I can't count that fast, Jen. I love it. I love it. That's fair. That's fair. That was our pre-K teacher. A hundred. Okay. Am I sharing my screen again there, Ms. Jonily? Nope. Nope. Okay. Talk. You don't you're next. All right. All right. So we are good here.

Alright. What we have just done with you is a quick dot. Now those of you that have followed me, you've seen this, you've seen it in the math sense. We've done a lot of different quick dots. There's many different variations. I am going to tell you that quick dots is the number one game changing intervention for students that lack number, sense and [00:29:00] recall of facts, period.

So what we are going to do this week is we are going to focus in on, we call this the purple X, the dots for purple. It looks like an X. We are gonna focus on this one quick dot. Again, there are lots of variations of it. Almost every time I pull a small group, whether it's in the full classroom or in a separate classroom, I will oftentimes use a quick.to teach many different standards at many different grade levels.

What quick dots is able to do is help us assess how strong or weak a student's number sense is, and I'm throwing around that term number sense. You saw what the DSM five said about it, we're gonna define it much better tomorrow, but for now, I'm just gonna keep saying number sense. What it [00:30:00] allows is for us to see how strong or weak students' number sense is.

Or is not. And then it allows us to see how deep we need to go with our interventions or how quickly we can accelerate our facilitation during those interventions. So even if we have students that struggle, or students that have been diagnosed with some kind of disability, there are still a wide range of abilities on that lack of ability continuum.

Cedric: This episode is part of our Quick Dots series. You can find the complete five day series inside disabilitylabs.com. Look for The Purple X or The Claw to get all the details of each Quick Dot pattern.

Next week, we will dig deeper into this topic of making dot patterns to support kids in mathematics with and without disabilities.

Cheri: Thanks ever so much. It's brilliant. You're welcome. Thanks so much everyone.

Thank you. Bye-bye now. [00:31:00] Bye.